Outside of a Dog: Chesterton, G.K.: Man Who Was Thursday, The

Mike Kozlowski

Mike Kozlowski wrote on May 17, 2008 at 2:27 PM:

Allegory for what? Standard Jesus, or something more interesting?

Kate

Kate wrote on May 17, 2008 at 2:45 PM:

Mike, it's theological. I'm not sure if this is a spoiler, so ROT13: gur ceboyrz bs rivy (EDIT: gurer vf n wrfhf svther, ohg vg jbhyq or zvfyrnqvat gb fnl gung'f gur rkgrag bs gur nyyrtbel).

David Tate

David Tate wrote on May 21, 2008 at 9:50 AM:

I think it's possible to read The Man Who Was Thursday as merely a novel of symbols, rather than a true allegory. I suppose it's a fine line. While we're on the topic, I always recommend Eric Walker's comments on Chesterton and TMWWT at his Great SF and Fantasy Works webiste.

Personally, while I liked TMWWT very much, it's not my favorite Chesterton novel -- that would be Manalive.

Kate

Kate wrote on May 21, 2008 at 12:10 PM:

(Aside: why didn't anyone *tell* me I'd misspelled the author's name?!)

David, I don't know what the distinction between a novel of symbols and an allegory is.

David Tate

David Tate wrote on May 21, 2008 at 9:18 PM:

why didn't anyone *tell* me I'd misspelled the author's name?!

Um, in my case, because I didn't notice.

As for the difference between a "novel of symbols" and an allegory, I think it has to do with the consistency and ubiquity of the mapping between symbol and referent. I think of Tolkien's comments on The Lord of the Rings, which he fervently denied was in any way an allegory, but which he happily admitted was full of symbolism.

For a work to be an allegory, you have to be able to say that (say) Fred the Butcher represents man's inhumanity to man, and *always* represents man's inhumanity to man, while Jane the Seamstress represents (always) faith in the Divine. It's not just that there are symbols, but the symbols persist and their relationships are static and have referents outside the work.

A novel of symbols (as I understand the term) is content with transient symbolism -- the One Ring might be symbolic of the seduction of power at one point, of the burden of virtue at a different point, of hubris at a third point. The journey from the Shire to Mordor might be symbolic, in a way, of the path from childhood to maturity -- but not in any systematic way, with specific events along the way meant to correspond to First Love or Loss of Innocence or Acceptance of Mortality.

That's what I meant by it, anyway.

Kate

Kate wrote on May 21, 2008 at 9:23 PM:

Ah, thank you.

Given the ending, I think it a stretch to say that the symbols in this book are not specific static referents, but I admit that my philosophical education is patchy.